For those on traditional social media, I just say “What if Facebook and Twitter and YouTube could all talk to each other? People on Facebook could follow people on Twitter and people on Twitter can follow people on Facebook.” Then they usually reply “that would be neat” and then I tell them “yeah, that’s what we are building over here in the fediverse.”
It usually is easier to give them an analogy related to something they are familiar with.
What is misskey? I am a fediverse user and I don’t even know what that is.
Microblog platform out of Japan
https://misskey-hub.net/en/
Goddamnit! I love this and want to share it, but don’t know anyone else that will appreciate it. Is this… irony?
This isn’t just Reddit with extra geeks?
Hi I’m the fediverse chick
A yeah, Nicole hit me yesterday again. 😂😂😂
Hmm new picture once again
To top it all off, I share this to discord groups where nobody even knows what the fediverse is.
We’re cool before cool 😎
When I tell people the only social media I use is Lemmy, I always wait patiently for follow up questions immediately after, which never come, because nobody gives a shit about what obscure social media the 35 year old man uses.
Hey I am not an 35 year old man! I am still in my 20’s!
…well, 29 actually, shit.
35 is rough. I’m starting to understand the whole “mid life crisis” thing.
I told one of my co-workers I used Lemmy, and he actually used Mastodan, so I’m the one who ended up asking him questions
As a 23 year old man, i quite often get the follow up “whats lemmy” but nothing beyond that.
“It’s like Reddit but less”
“Less bad?” They ask.
“Well yes, but also just less.”
I just say “I frequent a few niche forums”. No follow up questions. I’m old as well.
they all think you’re talking about 4chan
Or flashback.org if you are a swede
I frequent forums, too. Mostly car and motorcycle forums. Lemmy doesn’t really have those kinds of forums.
If you have content please post it. I’d love to have a motorcycle forum here but can’t really add content
You wanna see me install a Raspberry Pi 3 into my minivan to run the rear seat entertainment system? 😅
I’m more of a lurker than anything else haha. I scour forums for issues my cars/bikes are dealing with, and occasionally will ask a question here or there. I don’t really make many posts anymore, unless I’m doing a specific job or troubleshooting process that I haven’t seen documented anywhere else.
Ah, too many of us lurkers. We have to get some content people to make content for us
I do have a blog for my XR500 that I’m slowly working to make street legal. I initially called it a “restoration”, but it’s more of a “refresh with some light modernization” than anything else haha. I intend on keeping it as apocalypse-friendly as I can, since it’s kickstart-only, runs off a CDI system, and technically doesn’t need a battery (except for lighting)… The biggest hangup I have with that bike right now is the damn 23" front wheel that’s cracked. Not a single wheel repair shop I’ve called wants to touch it, a not-cracked 23" hoop is ~$150, and it’s too much work to convert it to 21" (that requires a disc brake conversion - I’m not tracking this thing, it’s just a commuter).
Lemmy is missing so much stuff, it’s pretty tough to be only here if you want any content except (left wing) politics and tech stuff
It is kind of crazy how motorcycle/car culture hasn’t really moved off of old-school internet forums. I very rarely need to visit them because I’m not a car guy, but I do think very fondly of them whenever I visit, they remind me of the internet of my childhood
There’s not a whole lot of crossover between car/motorcycle enthusiasts and tech enthusiasts. IT guys seem to be an exception here (source: I worked in IT for a bit), but they’re a small minority. Car enthusiasts in general tend to lean towards the conservative side of things anyway… 👀
Early in my career I learned not to overestimate anybody’s familiarity with my field.
If everyone took privacy, ethics, and computing as serious as the nerds in the fediverse the world would be an objectively better place.
Not even big instances, but big platforms I would say. Like, if you’re lucky someone might have heard about Mastodon, but that’s pretty much it.
“Ah yes the Dinosaur mato thing? Failed twitter alternative right?”
(actual quote from a convo I’ve had)
Failed Twitter alternative is pretty close to the truth actually.
Yeah it doesn’t have nearly enough nazis to compare
Even the word “Instance” is unnecessary gatekeeping jargon.
What do you propose instead of “Instance” ?
Service provider, server, or website as another suggested.
A typical sentence might be, “Do you use Gmail, Yahoo, or proton as your email provider?” There have been dozens of popular services over the decades but only Lemmy used a new word to mean the same thing.
I just tell people it’s a network of websites that you can use one login for. Like using your Google account to sign into pornhub.
No follow up questions.
It’s so simple I wish I had been describing it this way all along instead of trying to explain instances.
I may be too dumb for web development, but I’m just smart enough to explain it to the other dummies.
Can we make it okay for humans to use their brains again?
The term “instance”, in this context, means exactly what it says - it is one existence of many. How is this gatekeeping or jargon?
This implies to me that the “gatekeeping” you are referring to is reading comprehension and basic vocabulary; and frankly, if we’ve stooped that low, keep them out. There is nothing to be gained from a group that refuses to learn the basic definition of the word “instance”.
P.S. “provider” is a good (and correct) term as well.
Why don’t you call it an email instance too? It’s one of many. News instance? Instant messenger instance? They are all the same as Lemmy but with different data formats that are exchanged.
No one outside of Lemmy uses that term for a public server providing a service. That’s what makes it gatekeeping jargon.
Website? That’s what they are, and I think many people would be more familiar with that than “instance”.
And if they follow up with questions about apps you can mention whatever your preference may be.
I’ve never felt like a bigger idiot than when I try to explain the fediverse to normal people.
Hey… so you know about Email, right?
How you’re with Gmail and I with… say Proton. And we can still send Emails to each other? …
Is my go to approach
That’s a pretty good analogy.
it’s not an analogy lol. it’s literally the same thing.
Except using Lemmy is nothing like sending an email.
Please don’t reply all.
Consider the environment before printing this comment.
I always start with, ok, so you know the internet is basically a series of tubes right? Once we are on the same page about that, I start talking about ipv4 and ipv6 including a mention of dual stack supporting instances.
Dude don’t stop talking right when we’re on supporting dual stacks. I’m on the subway and the entire car is about to get off but now we’re just sad
I find it easier if the other person is a podcast listener.
“You know how podcast ads usually say ‘listen to it in Apple or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts?’ It’s a bit like that.”
If not, I have to say something weak or complicated like “it’s a bit like email, dunno how to explain this if you have never thought about how email works, though”.
That’s a really good analogy.
The email one works too once they realize they’ve never actually thought about what an email is. Like:
“If I send you an email from gmail, you can open it in outlook, right?” “Yeah”
“That’s because an email is just a file that both gmail and outlook can use” “makes sense”
“Can I see your Twitter post on Reddit?” “No of course not”
“But i can see Lemmy (Reddit) posts on Mastodon (Twitter). And these apps aren’t owned by huge companies. Normal people run each instance, and the software is free for anyone to use or host.”
I’ve heard that you can view Lemmy posts on Mastodon and vice versa, but I can’t wrap my head around it. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Mastodon post on Lemmy, or maybe I have and just didn’t realize it?
What’s a Lemmy post on Mastodon look like? And what’s a Mastodon post on Lemmy look like?
You ever notice those post replies that @ people’s username or names at the beginning of the comment?. Those are from Mastodon.
!testfediverse@jlai.lu has a few examples
I usually start with email, but I wonder if podcasts would be smarter. when I read what you said, my first thought was"but podcasts require you to upload to every instance that you want to be seen on" and then I realized that for the people that are just trying to get content this doesn’t matter. That’s actually genius.
I don’t think this is as much as specialized knowledge issue as it is that normal people are frightingly technologically illiterate considering how much is computers. I mean this is not a hard concept to grasp at laymans architectural level
Maybe I feel crazy rather than stupid then.
Technology literacy is specialized knowledge. You’re portraying the comic.
99% of people have no need or desire to know anything more about technology than the bare minimum to use it. The fact that you’re on Lemmy alone means you have way more tech knowledge than the average person.
Yeah it is but that’s not what I was getting at. You can try to explain things to people in the most basic way, say that a server talking to another server is like sending a letter. Latter concept is something everybody including literal children is conceptually familiar with. You do not need to know how the post sorts their shit, or distributes it or even how to properly adress a letter to understand how this works.
Except replace “letter” with “e-mail” and “institution or person” with “server” and people will act like this is impossible to attain knowledge requiring years of study. And I don’t mean in the abstract, I mean in the literal sense I have tried to use that specific analogy to explain how 2 servers talk, with no more depth than that, and it regularly fails
It’s crazy to me that within the span of my adulthood computers have gone from being a niche interest to something everyone uses and is knowledgable about and back again.
Computers have never been something that everyone is knowledgeable about. The IT industry has kinda trended like that, but to the general population they’ve always been boxes filled with magic smoke.
And that’s perfectly fine. If everyone was as knowledgeable about computers as you or I am, I wouldn’t have a job (well, I’m currently unemployed, but that’s because of Musk).
Not literally everyone, but there was a time period where it seemed much more common than not, at least in the US. When it was taught to children starting in elementary school, and taking advanced classes was required for many jobs, it seemed rare to meet someone who wasn’t knowledgable. I guess it isn’t included in children’s education or business education these day.
Personal computers used to be widely used because it was the only way to get online. We now have a new generation of users who use their phones to access the Internet and owning a computer is no longer required. Almost everyone has a phone. Not everyone has a computer.
Would you consider basic economics specialized knowledge?
Story of my life. I’m so annoyed when the response is to try to get me to shut up my flattering my intelligence. “Wow you use big words, anywayyyy”. Id rather you tell me you just don’t care. Then I can stop wasting my time. It took me a long time to realize what was going on, lmao.
The original comic is actually genius, and very true.
You clearly see it when the Linux users start prostletysing.
I want to like Linux and leave Windows, but when I say that I don’t want to be forced to use CLI/terminal because I don’t live in the 1970s, people get angry at me.
Then don’t use the terminal. You don’t need it.
Yes, eventually I learned how, but the vast majority of tutorials on how to install or do anything on Linux jump straight into it.
And as a software developer, a lot of tools I come across don’t have an official non-terminal installation option.So here’s the thing: providing support is much easier on the command line.
Also if you think about it, insisting that people who provide support or documentation use the system the same way you want to use it so they can show you how to use it is pretty weird.
Hold on there: did you say you’re a software developer? Can you do us all a favour and put GUI-only on your CV?
.
For CLI programs I agree, but I’ve come across GUI programs for which the official installation instructions were CLI only (like Android Studio).
I’m not GUI-only, I just strongly prefer it. My CV does contain me having years of experience developing GUI programs.
OK, again, as a hiring manager I would really appreciate you stating your preference for GUI-based computing on there. It will save both of us a lot of time.
It’s a preference, and I may complain about it on social media, but I know things are how they are and I’m not so hung up on it as to let it affect my work.
Worst case I would take a few minutes between tasks to quickly whip up a GUI helper, but I think that in 10 years I only did it 2 or 3 times.
If all you do is web browse and play games, you should be able to use Linux without the CLI just fine.
I installed Ubuntu in a VM to torrent with mulvad. I had to go to the command line. Worse was googling gave multiple contradictory instructions that further reading yielded “deprecated”.
I made it work because I’ve been doing it for 30 years. Anyone else would be better with Windows where it just works.
This is the most Lemmy interaction I’ve seen in awhile:
Linux is fine without CLI for web browsing.
…
But when I needed an advanced secure virtual machine isolated torrent solution, I had to use the CLI.
…
Here’s some thoughts on accomplishing that in Linux without the CLI.
I’m not complaining, just watching in admiration of you all.
Yeah, it’s kinda adorable to watch actually.
Huh, why not just use QBittorrent? I’ve never even felt the need to reach for the command line with torrents (Linux ISOs of course) because it works so well.
Yes it was QBitTorrent. The problem was getting mulvad out of the VM while letting QBitTorrent use a local network share to save files. I needed everything to be static ips.
Would you have been able to create your specific use case on Windows? Because most people don’t try “getting mulvard out of the VM”. That’s the type of thing that’s in my experience usually (I don’t know about this case specifically - that’s why I’m asking) a lot easier on Linux than on Windows (not that it’s easy)
The reason I brought it up was because it worked without problems in a Windows VM. But I really didn’t want to run Windows so I worked on Linux until it worked.
you haven’t been using torrents, Ubuntu, or VPNs for 30 years. why would you lie about that?
I’ve been using Linux for 30+ years so using a command line isn’t a problem. In fact my experience is a problem because my goto commands and config files have all been deprecated.
For example I immediately tried ifconfig. You’re probably too young to even know that command.
ifconfig was deprecated in 2009. I got into Linux in the last 10 years and still used ifconfig. Sure, it’s deprecated and no longer included in most modern installs, but you can still download and use it as before. A lot of guides online used ifconfig, so it’s a pretty common package for inexperienced users to download, even if deprecated.
Which is exactly what I said if you’d stop being hostile. I tried ifconfig, it wasn’t there. Googled saw instructions for both ifconfig and ip. Read more saw ifconfig deprecated. Saw /network/interfaces is deprecated. But when you Google it shows that and systemd information. As I said, I knew enough to know what I was reading and got it working.
I immediately tried ifconfig. You’re probably too young to even know that command.
no… i still haven’t figured out what i’m supposed to use instead.
Unfortunately I’m a software developer…
I can use a CLI, but I’d rather not.
Vibe coder? 😏
MORE REALISTIC MORE REALISTIC
You mean more cow bell?
Gross
You brought this on yourself, you realise that, right?
been on Linux mint for a year now and the only time i use the terminal is to git push to update my website. so far, nothing else I’ve been doing has needed the terminal.
Git does have a desktop version with a GUI, but the CLI is much simpler
does it? because I’ve looked and have only been able to find things that will tell me the status of my repository but not actually let me simply click a button to commit and push.
Oh, I assumed you were using github, my bad. There probably isn’t a good desktop app for git outside of github.
I am using github though.
Keep in mind that if I actually try to look at github, my smoothbrain glazes over. I’ve only checked what’s available through my package manager. I probably should have included that in the previous comment.
Ah, I see. If you look up “Github Desktop” online it should have a Linux version. I haven’t actually used it outside of Windows, but I can’t imagine it’s missing committing/pushing to github, that’s the whole point of the app! And yeah, github can be pretty daunting initially, there’s a lot going on and it didn’t feel intuitive to me initially either. I wish I had better advice other than just stick with it, but that’s what I did so I don’t know of any good guides
If you say it like that you are pretty much trying to aggravate them, though
I don’t want to be one of the people you think is angry at you, but I do want to proselytize a bit.
have you ever used a dedicated download manager? think of the terminal, first, as a dedicated download manager. All you do is type wget and then paste in the URL.
eventually, you may want to specify where the file goes, or what it’s named when you finally download it, or something else. then, you can look up which flags to add with
wget -hI suggest you try Linux, any flavor, but especially Debian or Debian variants. instead of thinking you need to learn to use terminal, just remember that you have a dedicated download manager called terminal.
The thing is you will eventually learn that the terminal does a lot more than called wget. and you already know how to get help, and add flags.
Kill me.
The CLI does some things so fast though. I myself like bypassing the gui and interacting more directly. Same reason I only drive manual cars and grind my own coffee (autistic?) But yes, I am glad linux has a gui and we shouldn’t force the cli on people who grew up with ipads.
ffmpeg is one of the things where I prefer the CLI. It’s crazy powerful, and does some insane things in pretty simple commands. I’ve seen a meme that says half the internet is just wrappers for ffmpeg, and I’m inclined to agree.
Also, as an arch user (btw) pacman / AUR are a much better experience than having to hunt down the installers for everything online.
Similarly, the right CLI tools make searching for files across my entire computer much simpler and way faster than I could ever do with a GUI
any tips for learning manual?
Find a friend with one, otherwise the key is to be smooth and really feel the clutch engagement. It’s different for every vehicle. Its a balance between clutch and gas. With a lower power car you’ll need more gas to balance while letting the clutch out. With an old manual truck, you pretty much need no gas input to get going because of torque. Another good way to learn could be just pick up an old g27 or g29 wheel (they have 3 pedals and a shifter either h pattern or paddles) and learn that way with a racing simple like LFS, Asetto Corsa, or Automobilista 2.
Depending where you live there’s all sorts of sub $800 manual cars. That’s how I learned (rusty $500 crx)
No one is forcing you to learn it, but you do need it for getting out of trouble.
The CLI is the fastest way of getting things done if you know what you’re doing.
you most definitely do need to use it on Linux, especially if you have a Nvidia graphics card… Audio issues are also prevalent.
especially if you have a Nvidia graphics card
Not once in the 11 months and 3 updates I saw when still on my nVidia card did I need to use terminal for anything, as there’s a built-in program for that on Mint (and a couple other distros at least, looks like)
if you have a Nvidia graphics card… Audio issues are also prevalent.
True. But do we have to include the NVidia disclaimer in every post about Linux adoption?
Maybe we genuinely should start. It seems like it burns a lot of folks.
Some vendors have lousy Linux support.
But then, MacOS on Dell hardware, and Windows on MacBook also both require extensive CLI. iOS on Samsung gets pretty weird.
I think maybe the disclaimer we should get better at adding is:
Take care to purchase hardware that advertises Linux support.
Lots of old hardware just works on Linux, but folks trying Linux for the first time should be encouraged to check for a vendor statement.
Silly to get angry about, because you can use Linux just fine without it. But the terminal is a powerful tool.
OpenSUSE. People don’t seem to give it much love, but their system settings application YaST makes command line usage completely avoidable for average users. Even for power users, YaST makes command line usage optional rather than necessary for most tasks.
While this was true 10-15 years ago, nearly all popular distros include graphical configuration tools that are as good or better than Yast these days.
Cli usage on Linux is entirely optional these days on most Linux distributions, but once you learn a bit of cli use you actually realize that it can be a very helpful tool.
I don’t think anyone is arguing CLIs aren’t useful, pretty sure we all know that. It’s not like you see the l33t haxxorz in movies tearing through GUI windows. We’re saying we don’t want to have to rely on it to do stuff frequently, for one reason or another.
And as far as saying it’s optional, I must be a power user, because even on Ubuntu I felt I couldn’t do much of anything without opening CLI.
IMO one of Linux’ greatest follys is demanding perfection to the point where everyone just tries to make the superior way of doing things, then you end up with a mess of different ways to implement the same things. It’s like that joke about coding languages, each one meant to be the final perfect language. Like with installers, on Windows you’re generally going to get an exe, an msi, or some compressed file type that you just need to drag files into their location. Linux? I can’t even tell you how many different methods I’ve seen for installing various things, none of which seems to be the “standard”. Even compression seems to be way more all over the place, on Windows I only ever really see 7z, zip and rar, but I’ve seen a dozen different compression types for Linux files. That’s incredibly confusing for dumb people like me.
Wdym? Installing things on Linux is much simpler. There is exactly one preferred way: the application repository from the distribution with a nice GUI interface for it. File types of archives play no role in that and why would that even be relevant?
Windows only recently got something similar with the Microsoft store, and before is was a super confusing mess of lots of different types of installers and generally a huge security issue to run .exe files from unstrusted random internet downloads.
Your explanation sounds more like you are trying to use Linux like it was Windows XP. But Linux is not Windows… you are holding it wrong 😅
My most recent experience being Ubuntu, this feels like a joke. Have you used the Ubuntu store? And the suggestion that the Microsoft store is in any way good makes me question your entire comment, it’s absolute trash on top of garbage. This feels like a joke comment to me. Executables are a huge security risk for you? 🤣
Yes, the Windows store is crap, but it is still miles ahead of running random .exe installers.
And the Ubuntu store is like the worst possible example you could find 😱
Just any normal distribution repository from for example Debian or Fedora works great. And Gnome and KDE have very easy to use GUI interfaces for these and ideally Flathub is also integrated. Super easy and seamless, no joke at all.
When I need to run terminal, it’s because I’m following a specific guide to fix or setup something. It’s not much different than following a similar guide for Windows, except there might be a bit more copy+paste going on on Linux.
The omnipresent mentions of terminal also delayed my switch and it was completely unnecessary.
Yes, I eventually managed to learn how to do most stuff without the terminal, but almost all “How to do Whatever on Linux” tutorials immediately jump into it.
I know the terminal is more distro-agnostic, but even the distro-specific tutorials do it.
Yes, but day to day usage, you don’t have to touch it
With flatpak/snap you don’t need to use terminal anymore.
what’s the oregano?
ty!
ty
Duh, she is the fediverse chick after all
It’s so annoying to me because she kinda looks like an ex with the same name
Your ex was named Fediverse Chick?
Ya. Why? Is that weird?
People have named their kids weirder things, so who am I to judge?
You mean to tell me there’s some kid out there named Weirder Things?
Pretty sure Netflix made a whole series about them.
I know she is, but its kind of creepy.
It’s no longer as humorous as she was at first withe them whole shit j. The world and the content just makes me worry it’s something else that we
Rob okcan’t control.Edit : ok that happened a second time this morning why the fuck am I dosing off suddenly and not realizing I didn’t check before I hit save?
