• TheOneCurly@lemmy.theonecurly.page
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    1 year ago

    Food is full of water and takes a lot of energy to heat up. The plate is thin and made of easily heated material like ceramic or glass.

    • knorke3@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      fun fact: water should react most strongly to the radiation used in microwaves while ceramic plates and glass should be pretty much inert - feel free to test by inserting first an empty mug of your choice, then doing the same wirh the mug filled with water and coming back to us with your findings :)

      Here is a nice starting point for further reading

      also as a side note: metals also react very strongly and the strong reaction of metals combined with the weak reaction of ceramic materials is why microwave kilns are a thing (for an explanation see the appropriate section here under “modern kilns”)

      • Thorry84@feddit.nl
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        1 year ago

        Please note that some ceramics are porous, so they contain water. If you put them in the microwave empty, that water is going to heat up fast and expand. If the water can’t get out fast enough, the cup will shatter.

        So don’t go doing this with your favorite cup and be prepared to give the microwave a proper clean. You don’t want any small chips of ceramic in your food.

      • MonkderZweite@feddit.ch
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        1 year ago

        water should react most strongly to the radiation used in microwaves

        Personal observation says it’s coal (graphite, fats). Is this because of induced currents?

  • Someology@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    If you have a poor quality, low density (often mass produced), ceramic plate, there are tiny air bubbles inside it. These vibrate when the microwave runs, heating the plate faster/more than the food. This is the same reason why some mug handles get hot enough for 2nd or 3rd degree burns in the microwave while others never get the “microwave handle of death”. Better made ceramics will have far fewer (or none) of these bubbles. This is why usually hand made pottery will not heat up like this, while factory stuff that was quickly poured into molds often will.

    • Misconduct@startrek.website
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      1 year ago

      Often is a stretch. Plenty of the cheap mass produced stuff still doesn’t heat up at all. It’s almost exclusively older stuff that I notice heating up these days

  • ubermeisters@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Every microwave has a specific 3d radiation wave harmonic pattern which determines the power distribution within the volume of your microwave enclosure. Most microwaves are strongest slightly to the left of center.

    If you want to test, put a full plate of mashed potatoes or something in your microwave, without the turntable. After a couple mins take some temp readings at spots on the plate.

  • Aceticon@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    [Edit: I went and read a scientific article about this and actually a lot I wrote here is wrong. Basically microwaves work by heating the water in the food by making the water molecules oscillate with the waves. (Ref: http://www.sfu.ca/phys/346/121/resources/physics_of_microwave_ovens.pdf skip the part about how a magnetron generates microwaves and how frequencies are limited by the dimensions of the waveguide if all you care about is how the heating works). It’s not at all the mechanism I thought and my conclusions are all off. This would mean that as somebody pointed out it’s the humidity in the plate causing it to heat, which woukd explain why it happens with earthware.

    The bit about which plates work best or not for me is correct as it’s experimental, as is the thermal conduction stuff because I actually learned that at Uni rather than presumed from what I knew (a totally different mechanism were photons are actually absorbed, which is not at all how microwaves heat food)]

    It’s to with the relative ability of materials inside that microwave to absorb that frequency of microwaves: the microwaves just bounce around in that compartment until they get absorbed, and those materials with a higher absorption ability for microwaves at the frequency used in microwave ovens (“microwave” is a whole range of frequencies and those ovens are tuned to emitting just a specific frequency) will end up “taking” a higher proportion of them (and hence of energy) than the other materials and thus heat up more.

    If the difference in absorption rates is big enough you end up with a situation where one things is absorbing 90% (or a similarly large fraction) of the energy bouncing around as microwaves in that oven and leaving only a smaller fraction for the rest, and hence heating up a lot more.

    You get a similar thing if you put, say, cheese on toast next to a glass of water in your microwave oven: that cheese, which is mainly fat, will melt like crazy and the water will barelly have heated up, because water is nowhere as good as fat in heating up (I believe, but am not sure, that the actual frequency chosen in the microwave spectrum for use in microwave ovens was the one that fat best absorbs)

    That plate of yours probably is some kind of ceramic material with metal particles in it, so it’s better at absorbing the microwaves than the food, hence the plate captures most of the microwaves (so, most of the energy pumped into that chamber), hence heats up much more than the rest.

    The termal conduction between the materials with different microwave absorpion rates that heat differently in that microwave will tend to equalize the temperature over time, but unlike with the fat which is part of the food itself and thus will quickly equalize temperature with all the other stuff around it (such as with the water in the food but not, as in my example above, water in a glass which is separated from it), the food and the plate are only in contact is a very limited area (were the food touches the place) so the temperature equalizes much slower between both.

    Try a different kind of ceramic (in my experience that problem happens mostly with earthware, so try finer ceramic materials) or glass plates.

    In the meanwhile if using the current plates, you can just use a lower power setting in that microwave oven to give more time for the above mentioned process of the temperature equalizing by conduction to move the heat from the plate to the food, spread the food better on the plate to have a higher the area of contact and thus more the thermal conduction for heat transfer between plate and food, or just leave the plate there with the food for a little while after the heating cycle is over so that more of the heat is conducted from the plate to the food before you take it out.

    • ElderWendigo@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Ok, now convince that your entire rant wasn’t just a language learning model’s hallucination of what sounds like a reasonable explanation, but doesn’t actually make any sense or have any grounding in reality. Because that’s what it sounds like. I was going to start picking apart your explanation, but there’s just so much wrong and inconsistent that I gave up.

  • Traegs@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    If the glaze on a ceramic plate has micro cracks on it, it can cause water to get inside the plate, which then gets hot in the microwave. Throw it away, it can grow bacteria.

      • Traegs@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Porcelain usually isn’t glazed and is made from a finer particulate clay allowing it to be smooth and non porous on its own. It’s the cheaper ceramics that rely on the glaze to be water proof that are prone to this problem.

        If your dishes aren’t getting unusually hot in the microwave then they’re fine.

        • Someology@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          No, porcelain is usually glazed, just often with clear glaze, since it is already white to begin with. If the porcelain is shiny, then it is glazed.

    • Madison420@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Nope, it just doesn’t happen. It’s an illusion of sorts, the plate isn’t being heated because microwaves work essentially on shaking water molecules. Ceramics and plastics are ultra low water content, put a plate in the microwave by itself and it won’t be hot.

      What you’re noticing is the plate heating because the food is heating and the food is transferring heat to the plate, not the other way round.

      • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        A simple refutation is that metal gets hot in the microwave, and it has no water in it. Microwave radiation heats many things, not just water

        • Madison420@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Different principle entirely but ask a physicist, I’m not telling you to trust me. I’m telling you to look, learn, and experiment.

          Ed: Here’s a hint. The first microwave was called a radarrange.

          • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            But I have experimented… I’ve melted plastic spoons in the microwave before. Where’s the water in plastic?

            Edit: that’s not really a hint. What does radar have to do with how microwaves heat things?

            • Madison420@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Those aren’t microwave safe then, other materials react as well but microwaves are tuned to shame water really well and most everything else not as well.

              Yes it is. Microwaves came from radar and radar works on the same principal.

              Ed:

              In 1945, the heating effect of a high-power microwave beam was accidentally discovered by Percy Spencer, an American self-taught engineer from Howland, Maine. Employed by Raytheon at the time, he noticed that microwaves from an active radar set he was working on started to melt a Mr. Goodbar candy bar he had in his pocket. The first food deliberately cooked with Spencer’s microwave oven was popcorn, and the second was an egg, which exploded in the face of one of the experimenters.[12][13]

              To verify his finding, Spencer created a high-density electromagnetic field by feeding microwave power from a magnetron into a metal box from which it had no way to escape. When food was placed in the box with the microwave energy, the temperature of the food rose rapidly. On 8 October 1945, Raytheon filed a United States patent application for Spencer’s microwave cooking process, and an oven that heated food using microwave energy from a magnetron was soon placed in a Boston restaurant for testing.

      • Someology@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        It’s the many tiny air bubbles trapped in low quality ceramics that vibrate and heat it up.

        • Madison420@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Possibly, feldspar content can have an effect as well in ceramic but in general the plate is not doing the heating or being heated. An ideal ceramic plate or plastic plate doesn’t heat until you get real crazy and manage to hit a frequency it likes.

  • Ignacio@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    The plate is a black hole and the food is a white hole. Thanks for joining my TED talk.

  • credit crazy@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Personally I’ve found it’s quite dependent on the plate color it’s actually the reason why all my mugs are black. Red and white really like to exsorbe the microwaves