No, its just that federation is a bit weird; both parties have to defederate, if only one does, the defederator won’t see any content at all from them, but the defederatee can see everything, and even reply to it.
Check lemmygrad’s all for example; they can comment under LW posts, but it’s just that nobody other than grad/instances federated with them can see it
I’m pretty sure not even instances federated with lemmygrad can see them as long as the instance that owns that community is defederated with lemmygrad.
So federation is a layered and can get pretty complicated.
piefed.social is defed from Hexbear, meaning it won’t send any activities to HB and rejects any activities it receives that belong to HB. That’s why that comm doesn’t show anything from HB, as p.s will reject any subscriptions from HB users and so won’t send any of the comm’s activities to HB.
However, when you on p.s post or interact with something on another instance, where the activities are sent is decided by the defed policy of the comm’s instance and the receiving instance. So when you comment in this comm, it will get sent to HB as feddit.uk isn’t defeded from HB and HB will accept the activity as they don’t defed from p.s. But HB is defed from lemmy.world, so when this comm sends it an activity from .world HB will reject it and so e.g. a comment won’t show up there.
It is even more complex than that: I do not see PieFed.social in Hexbear’s blocked instances list (click Blocked tab to see it on that page), so if it is true that HB has blocked PS, then it must be on the “hidden list” that Lemmy instances sometimes use to block communities or instances that they don’t like, but which for whatever reason they prefer for that fact to not be as publicly visible (it also allows finer-grain resolution to block only certain specific communities such as Chapotraphouse without having to block an entire instance).
I am not sure if PS has an exact equivalent of such a hidden list, but even more than that, PS blocking HB is reputably done baked right into the codebase, at least turned on by default unless an instance admin specifically removes it.
But anyway no, if HB has blocked PS, then HB users will never see any content from PS anywhere, under any condition. Visiting some other instance, either as a guest with no account or as a registered user with an alt account, would allow this, but at that point the user would not be a “Hexbear user”, in that specific mode of interaction.
It is even more complex than that: I do not see PieFed.social in Hexbear’s blocked instances list (click Blocked tab to see it on that page), so if it is true that HB has blocked PS, then it must be on the “hidden list” that Lemmy instances sometimes use to block communities or instances that they don’t like, but which for whatever reason they prefer for that fact to not be as publicly visible (it also allows finer-grain resolution to block only certain specific communities such as Chapotraphouse without having to block an entire instance).
Couple of things:
HB operates on an allowlist federation model, ie they don’t federate until an instance is put on their allowlist by the admins;
p.s is on HB’s Allowed Instances, so HB should accept stuff and in fact it does;
Lemmy doesn’t have a hidden list of blocked instances? I don’t know where you got that idea.
Oh wow this gets better and better. Someone on HB specifically made the decision to allow all PS content to show to HB users, either not knowing or else knowing that by replying their answers would be shot into the void. Or I guess this is where the idea comes from that it is not even that simple - the PS OP would not see any reply, but accounts on other instances that federate both will. Like a special club of shadowbanned users that can all see one another’s comments, but nobody else can!?😜
Lemmy does not have a hidden list of “instances” that are blocked (well, I dunno, but if there is then I am saying that I do not know of it!), but it does give instance admins the ability to block particular communities on certain instances, without acknowledgement of that fact showing up in the instance block list (which makes sense, bc it is not technically the instance that is being blocked, only the communities on them). I know of no way to view this information directly, but I do recall that the capability was announced in the public release notes, which helped explain why at the I was not seeing those communities despite the instance still technically being “federated” (e.g. Chapotraphouse from StarTrek.Website, although since that time I am thinking of STW has fully defederated from all of HB).
The fact that hexbear is federated with all piefed instances for now has the potential to lead to a funny as fuck situation lol
You mean… Hexbear voluntarily chose to partially shadowban literally all of its users?
This is priceless.
No, its just that federation is a bit weird; both parties have to defederate, if only one does, the defederator won’t see any content at all from them, but the defederatee can see everything, and even reply to it.
Check lemmygrad’s all for example; they can comment under LW posts, but it’s just that nobody other than grad/instances federated with them can see it
I’m pretty sure not even instances federated with lemmygrad can see them as long as the instance that owns that community is defederated with lemmygrad.
Good point, it was a hunch but an incorrect one I see. Thanks for the correction
I can’t see a single post on television@piefed.social as seen from hexbear.
So federation is a layered and can get pretty complicated.
piefed.social is defed from Hexbear, meaning it won’t send any activities to HB and rejects any activities it receives that belong to HB. That’s why that comm doesn’t show anything from HB, as p.s will reject any subscriptions from HB users and so won’t send any of the comm’s activities to HB.
However, when you on p.s post or interact with something on another instance, where the activities are sent is decided by the defed policy of the comm’s instance and the receiving instance. So when you comment in this comm, it will get sent to HB as feddit.uk isn’t defeded from HB and HB will accept the activity as they don’t defed from p.s. But HB is defed from lemmy.world, so when this comm sends it an activity from .world HB will reject it and so e.g. a comment won’t show up there.
Ah, so hexbear will only see piefed.social user interactions from mutually federated servers?
It is even more complex than that: I do not see PieFed.social in Hexbear’s blocked instances list (click Blocked tab to see it on that page), so if it is true that HB has blocked PS, then it must be on the “hidden list” that Lemmy instances sometimes use to block communities or instances that they don’t like, but which for whatever reason they prefer for that fact to not be as publicly visible (it also allows finer-grain resolution to block only certain specific communities such as Chapotraphouse without having to block an entire instance).
I am not sure if PS has an exact equivalent of such a hidden list, but even more than that, PS blocking HB is reputably done baked right into the codebase, at least turned on by default unless an instance admin specifically removes it.
But anyway no, if HB has blocked PS, then HB users will never see any content from PS anywhere, under any condition. Visiting some other instance, either as a guest with no account or as a registered user with an alt account, would allow this, but at that point the user would not be a “Hexbear user”, in that specific mode of interaction.
Couple of things:
Allowed Instances, so HB should accept stuff and in fact it does;Oh wow this gets better and better. Someone on HB specifically made the decision to allow all PS content to show to HB users, either not knowing or else knowing that by replying their answers would be shot into the void. Or I guess this is where the idea comes from that it is not even that simple - the PS OP would not see any reply, but accounts on other instances that federate both will. Like a special club of shadowbanned users that can all see one another’s comments, but nobody else can!?😜
Lemmy does not have a hidden list of “instances” that are blocked (well, I dunno, but if there is then I am saying that I do not know of it!), but it does give instance admins the ability to block particular communities on certain instances, without acknowledgement of that fact showing up in the instance block list (which makes sense, bc it is not technically the instance that is being blocked, only the communities on them). I know of no way to view this information directly, but I do recall that the capability was announced in the public release notes, which helped explain why at the I was not seeing those communities despite the instance still technically being “federated” (e.g. Chapotraphouse from StarTrek.Website, although since that time I am thinking of STW has fully defederated from all of HB).
Thank you for sharing.:-)
So in other words, the Fediverse is nowhere even close to being “just like email”? 🤪
Imagine if Windows users could not send or receive emails with Mac, Linux, Android etc. users…
While on the other hand, not everyone signs up to receive all content straight from 4chan just simply by virtue of being on the internet.
Most PieFed instances defed from hexbear, so the potential is limited.
(Sidenote, how do you see defed instances in the default PieFed UI? I was only able to see by
curl-ing the API)That just makes it even funnier, a piefed user in bliss while everyone else sees a dozen replies under their comment, and they don’t even know it lmao
https://piefed.social/instances Federation Status > Blocked
True, imagine all the PPBs they’ll miss.
Is that new? I don’t see that on https://piefed.world/instances or https://piefed.ca/instances.
I think it is new, yep
nice…