EDIT: no, I don’t sympathize with nazis (neither I sympathize with those who call everyone nazi when they’re losing an argument ;)

  • Norgur
    -18•1 year ago

    Besides: De-Federating is a mistake. That’ll lead to them reinforcing their bullshit unchallenged inside of their echo chambers and draw in everyone who comes by and stays long enough. That’s exactly what strengthens the AFD in Germany or certain religious groups in the US. The only chance you have against them is engaging them and hack off little chips of their construct of lies and hatred until it hopefully collapses.

    De-federating so you don’t see them and then pretending that solves anything is like throwing a blanket on a unexploded bomb that has slammed into your bedroom: You can pretend it’s not there all your want, until one day where the cover is being lifted rather radically.

    • yukichigai
      30•1 year ago

      On the contrary, deplatforming works very well. In the wake of Reddit banning FatPeopleHate and CoonTown the Georgia Institute of Technology did a study on walling off and removing “safe spaces” for bigots:

      Working from over 100M Reddit posts and comments, we generate hate speech lexicons to examine variations in hate speech usage via causal inference methods. We find that the ban worked for Reddit.

      More accounts than expected discontinued using the site; those that stayed drastically decreased their hate speech usage—by at least 80%. Though many subreddits saw an influx of r/fatpeoplehate and r/CoonTown “migrants,” those subreddits saw no significant changes in hate speech usage.

      In other words, other subreddits did not inherit the problem.

      Banning an entire bigoted instance from yours, i.e. defederating, will accomplish the goal of reducing and removing bigoted behavior from your instance.

      • Norgur
        -20•1 year ago

        Yes, it worked for the platform. It didn’t make the bigots go away. They just withdrew. No one actually changed their mind by being banned. They will just move to ever smaller platforms until they land on a platform where they are the only crowd and there they will keep reinforcing each other, leading to more radicalization.

        That’s exactly what I said: defederating will make the problem invisible to you, but the hateful bigots will still exist.

        • @kmkz_ninja@lemmy.world
          15•1 year ago

          I’m tired of people thinking that racists and bigots and morons deserve a warm shoulder to vent to. It isn’t anyone’s responsibility to make someone be something they aren’t, and it’s really suspicious anytime someone tells you that you should be nice, or hear out, or let join people that hold disgusting views.

            • @ieatpillowtags@lemm.ee
              5•1 year ago

              “ The only chance you have against them is engaging them and hack off little chips of their construct of lies and hatred until it hopefully collapses.”

              That’s exactly what you’re saying.

        • @Feathercrown@lemmy.worldEnglish
          13•1 year ago

          They will become more radical, but they will be prevented from radicalizing others. When normal people encounter the now hyper-radicalized members of the deplatformed groups, they will tend to write them off as the crazed radicals that they are.

          Convince those who you can. Exile those who are too far gone. Doing the opposite in either instance is harmful.

        • yukichigai
          12•1 year ago

          Why is it every instance admin’s responsibility to fix bigots? What is it about running a Lemmy instance that obligates people to actively work to find the one glimmer of redeeming quality in these human septic tanks? Why should the targets of their hatred have to do all the work to avoid being victimized?

          Well it isn’t, nothing does, and they shouldn’t. Bigots are the ones in the wrong here, and kicking them out works plenty well. Bigots spread by being given platforms. Take away even one of those and it lessens the spread.

          “We shouldn’t have echo chambers” is just propaganda from bigots who were upset that their soapboxes got taken away. Stop falling for it.

        • @pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz
          10•1 year ago

          Grow the fuck up and accept the fact you’re not wanted. Instance admins are allowed to associate with who they want. You are not owed anyone else’s time and attention simply because you exist.

          Also, has anybody reported this guy yet?

          • Norgur
            0•1 year ago

            What besides you reading assumptions into what I’m saying makes you think I’m… Whatever you seem to think I am?

              • Norgur
                2•1 year ago

                A… What now?

                Doesn’t matter. What does matter is the weird line if reasoning “you suggest approaching the problem of dealing with people that harm society differently than I would have done, so you must be one of ‘them’”

                Besides, you read some bullshit into whatever you wanted because you seem to deem it impossible that someone who has different ideas from your’s is not automatically a dog whistling bigot in disguise.

                Look at my post history and tell me what would back your “talkie” theory up. Why would I need all the hidden meanings and secret agendas I’m supposed to have?

                Discussions are getting nowhere when everyone is just assuming and insinuating the shit out if everyone else instead of talking about the stuff that was said at face value.