fiat_lux

Offended? No, but I’m not surprised someone who is engaging with the cognitive distortion of overgeneralization would come to that conclusion. I hope you feel better soon, I hear cognitive behavioral therapy is great for that.

Do you taste like wallpaper paste?

Even if I did, that’s still a world better than the stench of stale humor. I’m guessing in your case it would smell like expired beer, cigarette butts, concerningly-fruity piss and mothballs.

That’s not what the research says. Study shows lack of opportunity for disabled actors. The full PDF report, co-authored by actor Danny Woodburn who is best known for his role on Seinfeld, is linked in that article.

Tl;dr Actors with disabilities “were repeatedly subjected to negative stigma and preconceived biases by casting agents and producers” and less than 2% of actors cast had disabilities.

Even the Executive VP of talent and casting at CBS Entertainment agrees:

“There are so many talented performers available who are often overlooked and are not being considered for roles, so our goal with this initiative is to help bridge that gap.”

I’m literally taller than every country’s average height, but that’s OK - an inability to empathise is a disability too. I still think you’re capable of meaningful contribution to society, even if you didn’t come close to that here. Better luck next time, friend!

And if he had said it, I wouldn’t have said anything. But humor is a really complex thing, not always associated with pleasant feelings. It can be a social strategy and coping mechanism too.

Unfortunately this one is PDF only but it explores all the complex social themes in some depth from an ethnicity perspective: Dobai, A ; Hopkins, N. (2019) Humour is serious : Minority group members’ use of humour in their encounters with majority group members. European Journal of Social Psychology.

literally human Chihuahua

Dehumanisation, like infantilisation, is another problem for people in marginalised groups.

And if Dinklage said it, I wouldn’t have bothered to say anything, even if I still have thoughts on that topic. Because he has the right to tell jokes about his experiences. But the fact he didn’t say it is worth highlighting.

There is a lot to be said for the psychology of humor, with a wealth of research about in-group and out-group humor (mostly from a race and gender perspective, because people with disabilities often experience poorer educations) that dives into how humor is often used as a strategy to survive and compete. Ford, Thomas & Breeden, Christopher & O’Connor, Emma & Banos, Noely. (2019). Jokes and Humor in Intergroup Relations gives a decent overview of some of the topics, if you’re keen to dive into academic communications articles.

I also find that jokes made by members of marginalised groups are often more nuanced than they may seem to non-members, because they’re backed by lived experience and a better understanding of the social factors at play. Sort of like the jokes in kids movies that are actually targetted at adults. The kids laugh because it’s silly and over the top, but the adults laugh because they know what the joke really means.

Dinklage didn’t pull up the ladder with his mild criticism of Snow White, if that’s what you mean. Unless he has some kind of requirement that no other short actors can be cast near him, he’s not the one making the call on hiring decisions.

Disney pulled and pulls up the ladder every time they cast. After Dinklage’s criticism, they decided to consult with the dwarfism community, and then decided to remodel the dwarves into animated creatures with voice actors, based on the feedback they received. Ok, that does indeed remove these roles for actors with dwarfism…

But Disney also provided no other roles to little people as replacement, except the ones based on old stereotypes. Disney has the power to cast anyone in roles, as they tried to demonstrate with Snow White, but they choose not to.

And even if they did keep the original dwarf concept, there’s no guarantee they’d hire people with lived experience as little people anyway. Just like when Gary Oldman starred in Tiptoes. Most disabled characters in TV and movies aren’t actually played or written by people with first-hand experience.

It’s a short joke, not a dwarf joke.

And being short is a symptom of achondroplasia, along with many other painful issues. It’s a joke about how he is unable to do something to any kind of reasonable standard, because he has a disability.

I bet dinklage would find it funny

Maybe he would. Maybe he’s heard so many shit short jokes in his lifetime that it would be just another asshole who thinks they’re hilarious and original. And maybe his snow white dwarf comment was less about the mythical creatures as much as it was abour society’s portrayal and exclusion of people with bodily differences. You, much like the person who posed as him on Twitter, do not get to make that decision for him.

Originally titled we let our 3 year old son decorate a tree on Reddit’s r/CasualUK. Later recycled into A very Dinklage Christmas in r/suicidebywords.

I just want to take a moment to reflect on the ableism at the core of this the joke. The tweet isn’t even by the real Peter Dinklage, it’s from a “Fan Account”. This is just someone who found the picture, and created a joke based on Peter Dinklage’s disability (without his input or consent) by comparing his abilities to the efforts of a toddler. It’s actually a pretty great example of how society continually questions people with disabilities about their competence in vaguely-related situations.

Dinklage said this about the Snow White remake and I think it’s pretty worthwhile revisiting:

“Literally no offense to anything, but I was sort of taken aback, … They were very proud to cast a Latino actress as Snow White, but you’re still telling the story of ‘Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.’ Take a step back and look at what you’re doing there. It makes no sense to me. … You’re progressive in one way, … but you’re still making that fucking backward story about seven dwarfs living in a cave together.” - Dinklage on WTF podcast 24th Jan 2022

As a civilisation, we’re still doing “lol, person with different body can’t do things like most people because the world wasn’t built to include them” and calling it comedy when it’s actually a hugely pervasive and damaging stereotype that keeps people with disabilities from being able to contribute meaningfully. Achondroplasia (and other medical conditions) are not a joke, and the difficulties people do face as a result of exclusion are not in any way funny to experience or be reminded of unnecessarily.

I wish so much of comedy wasn’t just hurtful bullying pretending to be good-intentioned playfulness.

You get breaks? I missed my impossibly-high boulder quota, and if I don’t work through my break to catch up I’ll get written up again.

2 more strikes and they tie me to a mountain to get my liver pecked out by an eagle.

He bought it because he couldn’t stop being an arrogant edgelord keyboard shit-talker, and he accidentally made himself personally legally liable doing so. The Twitter board called his bluff, seeing the most amazing opportunity to rid themselves of an expensive and slowly dying company, and Musk had already pissed off the SEC (or one of the other financial government services) enough that he was at risk of having his finances in other companies audited.

So he was forced to buy it because he’s an impulsive troll. Everything else since then is pretty incidental, and unsurprisingly dripping with hypocrisy like this.

As long as I don’t have to mate with Tom Paris, it seems like a good trade.

You are all adorable.

I think the only difference between Australia and Germany might be the vegan sandwich part of your post. Although, I probably wouldn’t try to order the vegan option one in one of our cattle-farming towns… but they would just laugh and call me a city-person, which would be true.

This thread has made it very clear to me that yet again, despite languages and regions, we’re experiencing the exact same issues and rhetoric. I suspect that’s true globally.

I hope we can all find a way out of this mess soon.

This is what you said: (note: omitted for brevity)

That was something I quoted after you asked where I got my information. It’s from the person I replied to. Which is why it is formatted as a quote in my post. I thought the connection that it was the same text might be obvious given it repeats the text I replied to, just without the names for brevity.

Then, I checked the Buchenwald quote and it was real, and then i provided you with that info. And then I noticed the factchecker had a bunch of other horrible quotes alongside it that were also awful and consistent with Nazis, which suggests AfD might not have a lone-nazi issue. But you told me they were all not valid for various reasons that were not in the factcheck or any other source.

https://www.saarland.de/lgsb/DE/home/home_node.html

Thanks to the link for a court homepage which didn’t show anything. It’s good to know that you have been able to post links to any independent information that would clarify any of the incidents the entire time, but for some unknown reason, you chose not to.

I’m still not certain which part of Welsch’s tweet advocating for Buchenwald I misunderstood.I would have loved to have been wrong about that happening, but you never provided anything to suggest it didn’t - beyond your own opinion.

full virtue signaling mode

Uh huh. “Virtue signalling” is one of those stale internet catchphrases popularised by the conservative media to trivialise real problems and deride empathy. And yet, I would still rather be accused of virtue signalling than look like I’m attempting appeasement of far right extremists by advocating for not using the accurate words which hurt their feelings.

If you think you can win over far right extremists by appealing to their sensibilities, fine, have at it. Many of us are not human enough in their eyes to be listened to in the first place, so I’m just going to keep calling ducks ‘ducks’.

I have learnt a lot from all this, thankyou for the education.

Link to trial information, please? I don’t speak German well enough to know my way around your court document systems.

Also, as per the same factchecker article, a few sentences up:

Er war Sprecher der Homosexuellen in der AfD.

He was the spokesperson for homosexuals in the AfD. Which is just a wild concept in itself, but whatever, self-haters gonna self-hate.

In your original post you claimed these are all things the AFD does that are allowed in Germany, but it is not true (that’s why I said none of this has happened). If the AFD would say this they could easily be banned. That’s even on the website and the links you posted yourself.

I quoted exactly what I said. I’ll do so again so nobody has to scroll:

What I am surprised by is that Germany is allowing politicians to advocate specific Nazi atrocities when there are purportedly laws against glorifying Nazis.

You said “none of this happened”. In a language I don’t even speak I found third party evidence of someone advocating for Buchenwald, one of the things in the ‘never happened because ot is forbidden’ list. You told me the factchecker link I posted said the opposite. Then when I showed you it didn’t say the opposite, you said it didn’t address the quote at all. Then when I showed you it did, you now say he isn’t in the AfD. As though quitting cancels all your historical membership too.

All of this, after telling me that even though the AfD has Nazis in it, we shouldn’t call them out as Nazis… because:

You give them an easy way out because they will start a discussion about the word or try to push the narrative that only “real Nazis” are the problem.

Much like you have started a discussion about whether Welsch really is AfD, or if Germany really “allowed” him to say it, or if he ever really said it at all, or if the factchecker really addresses it…

No. To your point about not calling people Nazis because they’re assholes, I will continue to call assholes Nazis when they are Nazi assholes who explicitly call for repeating Nazi history, policy and/or beliefs. If they are assholes who do not call for Nazi repeat history, policy, and the same values, I will not call them a Nazi. Because they are just assholes, not Nazis.

If we stop calling Nazis out as Nazi, we choose to run the euphemism treadmill and give legitimacy to those who claim their grotesque conservative ethno-nationalist populism is somehow “different” from Nazis.

It’s not different. I’m not going to wait until the gun is pointing at me and others before I call out the same dangers and patterns that led to the last time Nazis were allowed to enjoy mainstream popularity, and the last time people like me were tortured, raped, enslaved and ultimately killed.

Feel free to believe things aren’t happening because there are rules against those things happening, I won’t be joining you. I assume pre-WW2 had laws against murder too, which didn’t seem to help much.

As I said previously:

For the other incidents, I’ll leave you to check the post I initially replied to for names and accuracy checking.

For the Buchenwald quote, under heading list item 3: Mirko Welsch from the link I provided that you said proved false most of the claims despite it saying they were “mostly accurate”:

auf einen Beitrag der Zeitung Neues Deutschland offenbar folgendermaßen antwortete: „Abschiebung der Antifa nach Buchenwald. Arbeit statt Linksterror.“ Das Zitat „Antifa? Ab ins KZ!“ entspricht also nicht dem Original, der Sinn ist jedoch nicht verändert worden.

Which directly contradicts what you said:

none of this has happened

What I also said:

What I am surprised by is that Germany is allowing politicians to advocate specific Nazi atrocities when there are purportedly laws against glorifying Nazis.

Were there legal consequences for Welsch saying this that I missed? Was there a trial and investigation?

deleted by creator

"Größtenteils richtig. Von den 19 Zitaten sind die meisten richtig oder größtenteils richtig. Bei fünf fehlen Belege, vier weitere wurden leicht verändert oder es fehlt Kontext. "

Are you referring to a different Factchecker than the link i posted? Or are you saying they just left up the page with incorrect information? “Proven as false” doesn’t seem to match this quote from the link I posted.

Old twitter screenshot of Mirko Welsch’s account apparently calling for Antifa to be deported to Buchenwald

I was unable to determine what other interpretations this might have:

“Abschiebung der Antifa nach Buchenwald. Arbeit statt Linksterror.”

Perhaps there is some nuance I have missed, ‘nach’ is a very versatile word even if the rest are very unambiguous.

This factchecker analysis looked even-handed enough for me to be satisfied it was not just my poor German or inaccurate auto-translation.

For the other incidents, I’ll leave you to check the post I initially replied to for names and accuracy checking.

It’s also worth noting that denazification happened in theory, but in practice Nazis remained in high powered positions pretty much continually after the war

An eternal problem that likely contributes far more than we could ever guess. Tragic.