i am more than willing to engage on any positive claim you want to make (i probably agree with a lot of them). what i’m not willing to do is tolerate personal attacks and dogpiling.

same

do you remember when we were young and we wanted to set the world on fire?

this is only the fourth day of Christmas. we are nowhere near pipers piping.

consent is not mentioned in the vegan society definition.

Christmas is twelve days: dec 25 to jan 7

where is it common to have a house beer shot combo?

Feeding calories to livestock and eating them is much less efficient than directly eating plants.

this is largely irrelevant, since most of the plants that are fed to animals are crop seconds or parts of plants that we don’t want to eat. they eat, for instance, cottonseed, which we grow for textiles, and soy cake, which is a byproduct of soybean oil production.

aside, plants love spreading seeds. they probably think it’s better to grow more of them.

poore-nemecek can’t be trusted to be the basis of my dietary decisions. it probably can’t even be trusted to have understood it’s own source data.

If one person stops eating meat then the meat industry will create less waste.

I guarantee a meat eater died yesterday. the industry is not going to shrink because of it.

We could guillotine all of the CEOs, and revoke every corporate charter, but it’d do jack for the environment, unless unless we also all change our lifestyle.

without those companies, the lifestyles would necessarily change.

you’re beans don’t have the same nutrient composition on a per pound basis

do you not understand the basic concept that less =/= more, and that less emissions is better than more emissions?

yes, but there is no evidence that being vegan reduces the emissions from the meat industry.

you’re not accounting for availability of convenient calories. it’s cheaper to stop at Burger King than to buy beans and spend my time soaking and cooking. the availability of similarly priced convenient calories simply isn’t there if you insist on avoiding animal products.

further, even when people are preparing their own food, if they raise their own, or hunt, fish or trap it, or if it’s subsidized or free, then throwing away those foods to buy beans is more expensive than eating what they have.

if you could get that value to 0% percent, there would be no meat industry.

meat production happened before trade. there is no reason to assume it will ever end.

there’s still only half the meat production that there would be if 100% of people ate meat.

production determines availability. there is no reason to assume we could produce more meat than we do, given land and technology constraints.

Yeah, because there’s more people in total.

make any excuse you want

That doesn’t mean people going vegan doesn’t stop the growth of the meat industry.

all the evidence is to the contrary

I don’t know if I could prove this, but I would bet there are more vegans now than any time in history, and I know there is more meat produced than any time in history. being vegan doesn’t stop the growth of the meat industry.

for the vast majority of people in western countries (which have by far the most emissions per capita), it is much cheaper to eat a plant based diet

I don’t think this is true

being vegan doesn’t stop the growth of the meat industry. it certainly doesn’t shrink it.

Plant based diets are still cheaper

for some people