These all sound good for the Chinese as a people, my question was about the government being trustworthy in what it tells people.

1st and 3rd links seem potentially good, the wage increase…you must know that’s a terrible comparison.

And this post is a great example of how the democrats shifted further and further to the right wing.

I see dot-ml users are accidentally upvoting me because I shat on the democrats. While they do suck in this case the demonstration is actually that someone who is trying to coddle the dot-ml groupthink shifts further and further into that groupthink for zero meaningful gains. They still got heavily downvoted despite trying to reach out to the hive mind. This is what happens to democrats who try to coddle the analogous republican groupthink. They too shift further into the groupthink and are punished by everyone for it.

Please adjust your votes accordingly.

But don’t you define lackeys as being people who also say china isn’t trustworthy? Ie it’s a circular logic you seem to got there, based on past ml experiences.

Let’s start with: governments are untrustworthy being made of people

So who told you china is trustworthy?

Your opinion is fact and you’re apparently pro slavery. Got it, bye.

Well… Mine has the evidence of history. You rejected history and called pretty much every historical figure ever an outlier. I don’t know what to do with that. (Besides move on with my life)

At this point it sounds like you’re saying “I don’t have proof but under everything I think people are Good and every counter example is actually something else.”

I don’t think this can be argued against because it’s just a closely held belief. That is, you can’t logic someone out of a belief they didn’t logic themselves into. Therefore I am stopping here.

So you will always find a person who is doing the enslaving but enslaving isn’t human nature? I dont know how to follow that logic.

Let’s take another class of slaves: domesticated animals. We’ve been doing that for a looooong time. We like them, but we don’t consider them our equals and will in general readily murder them or sacrifice them to meet our needs. Most of what you eat has about the intelligence of a toddler. Cats and dogs we enslave as our emotional support are also intelligent creatures.

Since resources are always finite all creatures default to exploitation as a survival system. Humans are good at making up stories for why it’s ok actually, but that doesn’t mean it is.

My point was simply that humans have been doing slavery for…pretty much as long as we have records. And that is in conflict with your view.

You said:

You know that humans lived in communal societies for a long fuckin time before all the bullshit we know today, right?

So what I’m saying is that for pretty much all of recorded human history we have documented proof that humans enslaved each other. Ie not communal. Slaveholding.

You then implied the ills of today’s society are tied to capitalism, an invention which came several tens of thousands of years after we invented slavery. Ie humans were shit to each other and abused each other in horrible ways long in advance of capitalism coming onto the scene.

There may not be capitalism in human nature, but enslaving people we view ourselves as being inferior to us is pretty much as human as apple pie.

Hopefully this makes more sense.

But it’s still our best guess at something we think we can prove.

I can vaguely recall several stories of fossilized remains which indicate all sorts of horrible things being performed on humans or related by tool users, which seems to imply in pre-history humans were still shit to each other.

So are there counter-examples?

Where did I say debt and slavery are the same thing?

I saw a half dozen messages in this thread about how humans used to be good or some bullshit, with no backing. I’m responding to that.

Prove your point with historical data or don’t, but don’t argue about some unrelated topic.

Wow that’s an interesting leap. So before we continue can we clarify: are you defending slavery (pre-triangle)? Are you saying it’s actually a good thing? I really need to know.

If so, your opinion no longer is relevant to any conversation.

If not, why are you bringing up the British/dutch slave system? It doesn’t particularly matter that stomach cancer is worse than colon cancer.

When was this? How good are the records from this time? Seems like for at least the last 12000 years (biblical era) we were for the most part miserable, diseased, and exploitative

I mean it’s possible. I think Luigi either wanted to get caught or the planted evidence story is true.

What do you mean not allowed? Just go do it. Defense is by it’s very nature much much harder than offense. You could probably kill a few CEOs with $1000 and some travel expenses. Just go do it if you think it’s so important to bash heads in.

And slavery isn’t capitalism? Or is that cooperative because the slaveholder says “I have a knife and will kill you” and the slave says “I don’t want to die” so it’s mutual collaboration where the slave doesn’t die but also is a slave?

I mean at the time the concept of psychology was measuring skull ridges to “prove” racial superiority so yeah, he would think that. Because he was completely ignorant of the concept of studying human psychology

😂😂😂

Speaking of not reading books… holy shit where did you go to school, Florida?

I’ll leave you with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery

Few hundred years 😂😂

So you’re saying he forgot to account for the human nature of judging things you haven’t seen/read/experienced?

China