Those are more or less synonymous.

I can tell you’ve been huffing too much philosophy because you insist on weird hair splitting like this lol

Yes, it’s a thought exercise, not a tautology. And it’s not a great thought exercise either, because people of low intellect apparently assume it’s a tautology because of how it’s worded.

No it’s not and that’s a terrible way to view the world.

Are you the same idiot who argued with me before because he thought he’d found the Word of God in this random philosophical exercise?

Edit: nope, different moron. I wonder why this silly thing is making the idiot rounds lately? It’s like when a 19 year old has their first philosophy 101 class and thinks they’ve gained supreme knowledge of how the world works.

https://lemmy.world/comment/9746636

So my initial response was “jesus fuck that’s some unnecessary hyperbole, I get your point but that’s ridiculous”

And then I realized that’s the same response I have with women who pick the bear so

I dunno

Maybe you all suck?

I don’t know if you could say “easily understood”. “Liberal” and “socialist” have very different meanings depending on whether you’re speaking to a US audience or a European audience. That’s not my definitions, that’s just the common usage.

Sorry, got banned and let the conversation lapse.

I pretty firmly disagree with using that when discussing what ideologies are left and right, as that changes all the time.

I think this is the root of our issue. Ideologies do change over time, and across societies and geographies. What is left of center in the US is right of center in other countries, and what’s right of center in the US is left of center in other countries.

I have left wing politics in the context of the US. They may be right of center in other countries. But in the US, what most lemmings would consider as “leftism” is such a vanishingly small group they don’t even make an impact nationally.

85% of his time though?

Yeah so whatever company you worked for needed to improve their hiring standards

but I spend about 85% of my work time gossiping / posting memes with my coworkers and watching youtube.

Probably not very good at your job then??

You are being radicalized. Remember the conspiracy to fascism pipeline. Once they get you to disbelieve reality, they can convince you to believe a new reality of their making.

It’s one of the most earthquake prone areas in the world. It has earthquakes.

That’s like…one, maybe two years

As compared with Android, which is like…decades

My answer to this question was literally “no…?” lol

If you’re that much of an idiot, and don’t want to hear competing arguments, why click the link in the first place?

You don’t even know how to say “epistemology”, much less what it means. Pick your knuckles off the ground before you comment on other people’s intelligence.

Theocracy and laissez-faire capitalism would be right of center. You know, the dominant ideology of Republicans? If you’ve forgotten they exist for a moment, this may be a good time to check your own echo chamber. They very may well be in power next year.

Slight tangent: Leftists tend to retreat so far into their own safe spaces that they forget a solid 30% of the US is farther right than the farthest right person they’ve ever met. Nazism is not hyperbole, it’s a legitimate belief that is ascendant right now.

I think, for example, Socialism is the structure, being Worker Ownership of the Means of Production. Different Socialist tendencies, such as Marxism, Anarchism, Syndicalism, and so forth, seek to establish this structure in different ways and means, and thus have their own structures and ways of achieving them.

Under its definition, social democracy would also be socialism, since owning the means of production is the eventual goal. Unlike most other ideologies, it attempts to reach that goal with as little disruption of the capitalist framework as possible. Thus I would call social democracy the most centrist of the socialist ideologies, though I would say all socialist ideologies are left of center (see above).

It’s also important to note that this is within a Western framework, not exclusively US or European. One issue I think with discussions like this is Americans will say that social democracy is on the Far Left (which is true…in America) and Europeans will say it’s centrist or perhaps right of center (which is true…in (western) Europe). If your framework is the Middle East, then the idea of social security is radically left wing.

I also think it’s important to note that Socialism is not a purely economic structure. There are strong social elements as well. Socialists don’t want to own the means of production for the funsies. Socialism goes hand in hand with a strong social safety net, worker protections, environmental protections, etc…generally, the good of the many over the good of the few. When we talk about the difference between different flavors of leftism, it’s easy to compare the economics alone. But especially in contrast with centrist and right wing ideologies, the differences in societal goals is stark.

I get that you say that it’s fuzzy with ideologies, but certainly, you must see how it’s easier to define economic structures by their mechanisms, and not their goals, right?

Wouldn’t “owning the means of production” be a goal, rather than a mechanism?

Social democracy for example still believes in workers owning the means of production, but with a degree of gradualism that most Leftists find icky.

What’s the difference between Leftism and Socialism, in your eyes?

Well, first I think I should give a note about framing: Socialism, Leftism, any of the -isms are all such large movements that there will necessarily be some overlap with multiple definitions, and I think that saying “x-ism is always this and never that” is a fool’s errand.

Both Leftism and Socialism are a kind of catchall umbrella term for a number of different more specific ideologies.

In general, I would say neoliberalism overlaps quite a lot with centrism, but a bit to the left of it. Neoliberalism grades away to socialism at roughly the point of social democracy (this is where I sit on the political spectrum). Socialism is a HUGE sphere, since it’s become a bit of a catchall term, but I would say Leftism starts where Socialism departs neoliberalism, and on the left end of the spectrum Leftism itself goes beyond socialism and into communism and its more radical forms.

Tell me how I can be good-faith, in your eyes.

Say “I think” instead of “this is so” when talking about ideologies. Ideologies are fuzzy, not rigid.

I checked out of any possibility of a good-faith conversation when you said “that’s not socialism”. Any conversation that starts with splitting hairs about definitions goes nowhere. Especially about leftism. Or metal music.

Did you actually just No-True-Scotsman the entire concept of a No-True-Scotsman?

What you describe, Social Democracy, is not Socialism

And this is why leftists never get any power except for hijacking the occasional popular revolution. You guys always No-True-Scotsman yourselves into irrelevancy.