if someone on lemmy.world reported a post on lemmy.ml, the report would not be seen by the lemmy.ml mods. now that reports are federated, the mods will see the report
Let’s just put it this way: lemmy.ml is “special”. You are correct that tankies have zero interest in receiving reports from the Western world, but the more democratically-aligned portions of the Threadiverse would like for work to be distributed rather than centralized into one authoritarian instance that controls everything.
However, this is only one of the many ways in which the Lemmy software does not perfectly align with the interests that most people worldwide would like to see from it. But… it’s their software, so they can work on or not work on various aspects of it as they see fit?
Like there is a modlog but no mod mail, no notification about someone’s content being censured, no ability to appeal or ask questions after a ban, unless you DM every mod in the entire community individually (bc the modlog simply says that the action was taken by a “mod” - so how else to reach the one that did it?). Highly ironically (and almost hilariously?), Lemmy is somehow even more authoritarian than Reddit, in these respects!!🤣🤪 Put another way, it offers enormous freedoms to instance admins (which Reddit explicitly does not allow) and moderators, but not so much to the people at the end user level.
Lemmy is more than 5 years old and still not even 20% done. While Reddit is 20 years old and is already overdone with unnecessary things. I think that developers simply haven’t implemented things you have described yet.
Lemmy was designed to appeal to instance admins - as it should be? - and seems to work just fine in the eyes and hands of the developers, who also admin and moderate the lemmy.ml (and with close ties also to the lemmygrad.ml) instance(s).
As the comments in this very OP show though, the developers have been exceedingly slow - perhaps not intentionally - in making the software work as well in the wider Threadiverse, where activities such as moderation can now be shared by others.
Also, many times changes have seemed to me to be moving in the opposite direction, towards rather than away from authoritarian control. Two examples include the switch from showing the name of a specific mod to now simply say “mod” (which wouldn’t be bad at all if there was a modmail, but since there is not… it leaves the end-user little recourse to ask questions about a ban?), and the “instance banning” (which btw seems horribly misnamed to me, as it does not “block” much of anything, merely muting communities on that instance) that used to not trigger notifications when someone from the instance that you tried to “block” would reply to your content, but then in a later version allowed those notifications, here too leaving users far less power to accomplish their desires. In contrast, instance admins have a full defederation option available to them, but what option is left to the end user to block all users from an instance, who can DM, vote, and reply to your content to their hearts content, while you can do little about the matter. To clarify, I mean on Lemmy, whereas PieFed allows blocking all users from an instance.
And looking at the moderation practices used on Lemmy.ml - particularly the lack of transparency where people are routinely banned for rules that are never outright stated - makes me think that the authoritarian principles baked into the Lemmy codebase are not an oversight, but rather a feature. At least in the sense of being de-prioritized.
Which is their right btw to implement the code however they see fit. Perhaps someone can contribute a PR, maybe they’ll accept and share it with everyone. And also, people are free to use and contribute to PieFed, which has an entirely different set of principles that are based far less on authoritarian control.
But, anyway, I’ve got what you mean. In any case, Lemmy is still in development as I see. So it is hard to tell if the devs are really sticking to authoritarian principles or just haven’t implemented the useful features due to other priorities, laziness or other development reasons. All I see in Lemmy is a good, half baked project that just needs some more attention and a bigger userbase.
The main reason I am using it is because of in normal comunities you don’t get banned straight away but just have you post/comment deleted. And even if you get banned, it is a real achievement to be banned to use the whole Lemmy federation, not only 1 comunity. While nowadays it is very easy to gain bans on Reddit. So, I am glad to just be in less toxic and more free space despite its disadvantages.
Hehe it is funny that you mention that… because Dessalines routinely bans people from the entire lemml.ml instance including communities that someone has never even heard of, upon the slightest provocation, citing a rule that doesn’t quite exist (somehow rule 1 is contorted to mean not be supportive enough of certain formerly communist nations, despite never explicitly stating that).
Spez (Steve Huffman) did what he did for reasons of profit, whereas Dessalines does what he does for other reasons, but they both are fairly authoritarian.
Lemmy overall is leagues better than Reddit, agreed. Despite being authoritarian in nature, whereas PieFed is significantly less so. You’ll see, over time.:-)
Lemmy for now doesn’t use inadequate AI system that autobans you for misinterpreted context. Doesn’t offer paid tier or whatever. Reddit does everything to gain money and please investors. It was still a good place only a few years ago, but now it doesn’t worth using it, since there is much less freedom of word.
I know very well about Lemmy.ml instance and that it is basically a local junkyard with propaganda advertisements from Russia. It isn’t worth of even visiting, since there is not much useful content anyway. Basically, if most users will abstain from visiting ml instance, it will remain in isolation by itself providing no direct harm to others. So, instead of fighting with it it is much easier to just ignore it.
Correct, though profit-seeking isn’t quite related to authoritarianism, so that is two reasons that the Threadiverse is vastly superior - and there are so very many more besides, including the 3rd party apps, readability, the more educated user base, really the list goes on and on, I am 100% with you on that point. Really the only things that Reddit has over the Threadiverse now is the larger user base allowing for more niche content, the notification sent about someone’s content being removed, and the modmail.
I do celebrate Lemmy’s existence, while also offering props to the devs for offering the code for free. And I think they are authoritarian, which I see visible in the manner in which certain things are handled in the code. Fortunately it is not the only implementation of the ActivityPub Protocol on the Threadiverse - there is PieFed, K/Mbin, nodeBB, and others on the way (flarum received a NLnet grant to federate it). Some (non-monetized) competition will do everyone some good here.
if someone on lemmy.world reported a post on lemmy.ml, the report would not be seen by the lemmy.ml mods. now that reports are federated, the mods will see the report
Oh ok, thanks for the clarification. That’s a good thing, right? Or not?
Edit: Actually this got me thinking… Hmm.
Let’s just put it this way: lemmy.ml is “special”. You are correct that tankies have zero interest in receiving reports from the Western world, but the more democratically-aligned portions of the Threadiverse would like for work to be distributed rather than centralized into one authoritarian instance that controls everything.
However, this is only one of the many ways in which the Lemmy software does not perfectly align with the interests that most people worldwide would like to see from it. But… it’s their software, so they can work on or not work on various aspects of it as they see fit?
Like there is a modlog but no mod mail, no notification about someone’s content being censured, no ability to appeal or ask questions after a ban, unless you DM every mod in the entire community individually (bc the modlog simply says that the action was taken by a “mod” - so how else to reach the one that did it?). Highly ironically (and almost hilariously?), Lemmy is somehow even more authoritarian than Reddit, in these respects!!🤣🤪 Put another way, it offers enormous freedoms to instance admins (which Reddit explicitly does not allow) and moderators, but not so much to the people at the end user level.
Edit:
Lemmy is more than 5 years old and still not even 20% done. While Reddit is 20 years old and is already overdone with unnecessary things. I think that developers simply haven’t implemented things you have described yet.
Lemmy was designed to appeal to instance admins - as it should be? - and seems to work just fine in the eyes and hands of the developers, who also admin and moderate the lemmy.ml (and with close ties also to the lemmygrad.ml) instance(s).
As the comments in this very OP show though, the developers have been exceedingly slow - perhaps not intentionally - in making the software work as well in the wider Threadiverse, where activities such as moderation can now be shared by others.
Also, many times changes have seemed to me to be moving in the opposite direction, towards rather than away from authoritarian control. Two examples include the switch from showing the name of a specific mod to now simply say “mod” (which wouldn’t be bad at all if there was a modmail, but since there is not… it leaves the end-user little recourse to ask questions about a ban?), and the “instance banning” (which btw seems horribly misnamed to me, as it does not “block” much of anything, merely muting communities on that instance) that used to not trigger notifications when someone from the instance that you tried to “block” would reply to your content, but then in a later version allowed those notifications, here too leaving users far less power to accomplish their desires. In contrast, instance admins have a full defederation option available to them, but what option is left to the end user to block all users from an instance, who can DM, vote, and reply to your content to their hearts content, while you can do little about the matter. To clarify, I mean on Lemmy, whereas PieFed allows blocking all users from an instance.
And looking at the moderation practices used on Lemmy.ml - particularly the lack of transparency where people are routinely banned for rules that are never outright stated - makes me think that the authoritarian principles baked into the Lemmy codebase are not an oversight, but rather a feature. At least in the sense of being de-prioritized.
Which is their right btw to implement the code however they see fit. Perhaps someone can contribute a PR, maybe they’ll accept and share it with everyone. And also, people are free to use and contribute to PieFed, which has an entirely different set of principles that are based far less on authoritarian control.
Well… That’s a huge block of information.😁
But, anyway, I’ve got what you mean. In any case, Lemmy is still in development as I see. So it is hard to tell if the devs are really sticking to authoritarian principles or just haven’t implemented the useful features due to other priorities, laziness or other development reasons. All I see in Lemmy is a good, half baked project that just needs some more attention and a bigger userbase.
The main reason I am using it is because of in normal comunities you don’t get banned straight away but just have you post/comment deleted. And even if you get banned, it is a real achievement to be banned to use the whole Lemmy federation, not only 1 comunity. While nowadays it is very easy to gain bans on Reddit. So, I am glad to just be in less toxic and more free space despite its disadvantages.
Hehe it is funny that you mention that… because Dessalines routinely bans people from the entire lemml.ml instance including communities that someone has never even heard of, upon the slightest provocation, citing a rule that doesn’t quite exist (somehow rule 1 is contorted to mean not be supportive enough of certain formerly communist nations, despite never explicitly stating that).
Spez (Steve Huffman) did what he did for reasons of profit, whereas Dessalines does what he does for other reasons, but they both are fairly authoritarian.
Lemmy overall is leagues better than Reddit, agreed. Despite being authoritarian in nature, whereas PieFed is significantly less so. You’ll see, over time.:-)
Lemmy for now doesn’t use inadequate AI system that autobans you for misinterpreted context. Doesn’t offer paid tier or whatever. Reddit does everything to gain money and please investors. It was still a good place only a few years ago, but now it doesn’t worth using it, since there is much less freedom of word.
I know very well about Lemmy.ml instance and that it is basically a local junkyard with propaganda advertisements from Russia. It isn’t worth of even visiting, since there is not much useful content anyway. Basically, if most users will abstain from visiting ml instance, it will remain in isolation by itself providing no direct harm to others. So, instead of fighting with it it is much easier to just ignore it.
Correct, though profit-seeking isn’t quite related to authoritarianism, so that is two reasons that the Threadiverse is vastly superior - and there are so very many more besides, including the 3rd party apps, readability, the more educated user base, really the list goes on and on, I am 100% with you on that point. Really the only things that Reddit has over the Threadiverse now is the larger user base allowing for more niche content, the notification sent about someone’s content being removed, and the modmail.
I do celebrate Lemmy’s existence, while also offering props to the devs for offering the code for free. And I think they are authoritarian, which I see visible in the manner in which certain things are handled in the code. Fortunately it is not the only implementation of the ActivityPub Protocol on the Threadiverse - there is PieFed, K/Mbin, nodeBB, and others on the way (flarum received a NLnet grant to federate it). Some (non-monetized) competition will do everyone some good here.